Christians and Muslims comprise over half of the Earth’s population. However, they have been kept apart for over 1,300 years because they have been taught that there are irreconcilable differences between the Bible and the Qur’an.
Christians do not read the Qur’an and Muslims do not read the Bible. Yet, each group continues to criticise what they think that the other believes.
Having studied the Bible and early civilizations for over thirty years, and the Qur’an for over one decade, I have found that there is harmony between their principal teachings, without compromising any teaching or damaging the integrity of any verse in either book.
Brothers Kept Apart contains compelling and explicit evidence that exposes the myths that have unnecessarily divided Christians and Muslims for the past 1,300 years.
“In my opinion, the most important lesson from studying history is: never be afraid to re-examine the evidence in order to learn or verify the truth. We should never be afraid to critically examine claims of truth, for truth should be able to withstand rigorous scrutiny.” Walter Phillips BSc, BEng, MASC, MURP, CEng, FIStructE, FCIHT, MAPM, MCSCE, MBAPE
Common Questions
What does “scientific comparison” mean?
Previously, opinions of truth were established on the authority of a political or religious leader. Anyone who dared question their opinions was severely persecuted. Within the last 200 years, persons have started to question some of these opinions of established truth without the threat of severe persecution, and only in the last decade have previously restricted historical documents become easily accessible.
The scientific approach is that evidence must be interpreted honestly. This means that:
- the interpretation must be supported by the evidence;
- the interpretation must not damage the integrity of the evidence;
- the assumptions used in interpreting the evidence must be verified; and
- all conflicting evidence must be resolved.
Using this approach, I have found harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an.
Do most Christian and Muslim leaders teach that there is harmony between both books?
Christian religious leaders do not encourage the reading of the Qur’an, and Muslim religious leaders teach that the Bible has been corrupted and could lead adherents astray. A review of the historical record on this subject reveals that Christian religious leaders have criticised their understanding of Islamic religious traditions rather that what is stated in the Qur’an, and Muslim religious leaders have criticised their understanding of Christian religious traditions rather than what is stated in the Bible. Therefore, both leaders have misled more than half of the Earth’s population, who are either Christian or Muslim, about what the other is supposed to believe.
There has not been an honest comparative study of both books. The last major study was done by Thomas Aquinas around 1260 AD; however, even he admitted that he had not read the Qur’an and was only responding to what he thought that Muslims believed.
What do you think are the three most important harmonious teachings?
First, that both books teach that there is only One God, who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Therefore, the God referred to in the Qur’an is the same God referred to in the Bible.
Secondly, that both books teach that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, taught the Gospel, healed the sick, raised the dead, and is the Messiah.
Thirdly, both books teach that we should be reconciled to, and cultivate a personal relationship with God.
What are the biggest surprises that you have found?
There are two.
The first is that it is likely that Mohammed was a prophet sent by God, since his teachings, during the initial 9 years, are similar to those of the Biblical prophets.
The second is that Muslims cannot hope to understand the Qur’an properly without first reading the Bible. The Qur’an actually instructs readers to believe the revelation sent to the Old Testament prophets and the Gospel, and to copy and distribute it to the nations of the earth without compensation.
What harmonious teachings give you hope?
It is their prominence given to loving God and serving mankind over their religious rituals and traditions. Perhaps a quotation from each book can explain.
Bible: “Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh?” (Isaiah 53:6–7)
Qur’an: “It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfill the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing.” (2:177)
Who are you?
I am the author of the recently released book Brothers Kept Apart. I hold earned Bachelor degrees in mathematics and structural engineering, and earned Masters Degrees in environmental engineering and land use planning, and have spent the past 20 years investigating evidence and designing solutions to problems.
Why this site?
It is considered unethical and intellectually dishonest for researchers to simply present their findings and refuse to defend them. Brothers Kept Apart has been subjected to 7 years of pre-publication critical review; however, since it is now published, an opportunity must be found for readers to critically review it also.
I am happy to provide any additional information, and engage any reader on this and any ancillary topic in this forum or any other, so that we may all know the truth.
Brothers Kept Apart 
Alsallam Alaykem or peace be unto you
thank you so much for your contribution and efforts.
Appreciate the read and the site.
Hi Mo5lim:
Thank you for your kind works.
Regards,
Walter
Great tool for me especially today, as I prepare to attend a family gathering which shall be at one point an opportunity to chastise me for not “coming to Jesus.” I am so apprehensive and struggling to maintain the feeling of peace and love for all humanity which the engagement of Islamic prayer has sprinkled from my heart throughout my soul .
Dear Khahdija:
Perhaps you could give them a copy of ‘Brothers Kept Apart’. However, please note that the Qur’an does teach that Jesus is the Messiah, and refers the reader to the books of the Bible to understand what that means.
May you continue to submit to God, and may you know Him as a Friend and Father.
Regards,
Walter
This website is a phony, i dont believe anything it says. It is trying to lead muslims astray and giving false information about islam. this website is turning jews and christians against islam, even more against islam than they already are. The truth is islam is not a racist religion, nor are muslims terrorists though everyone thinks they are. This is unfair judgement, judgement without any proof. Thank You.
Dear Muslim:
Clearly you have not read anything on this site. After you have read a little bit, please contact me with your specific concerns and I will be happy to respond to them.
As you may realize, I do not delete unfavorable comments; but, I have a right to respond to them. However, if you wish me to remove your comment after you have read more of this site, then I will grant your request.
Regards,
Walter.
was Mohammed married to Kadesha in a heretical Christian church by Waraqwa, a heretical Christian pastor, who pastored Mohammed for almost 20 years and who in fact wrote part of the Koran?
Hi Jim:
My understanding of the historical record is that Waraqa was a Christian and the cousin of Mohammed’s wife, Khadija. Khadija and Mohammed were married for 15 years before Mohammed started preaching at age 40. Waraqa died shortly thereafter, but Mohammed continued preaching for the next 22 years.
Analysing this evidence, we can reasonably assume that Mohammed had some contact with Waraqa during the 15 year period before Mohammed started preaching. However, it is highly unlikely that Waraqa had anything to do with writing the Qur’an. Can you please provide the source for your assertions so that they can be properly investigated?
Regards,
Walter
Lots of guys write about this subject but you said some true words!!
Thanks BoifeBigo:
Walter.
hello im so happy to see this site,im a muslim from canada and i have a friend name kevin moss from australia who is a christian.we have been friends for past 4 years now and in our 4 year relationship we have always tried to find a way to connect and find the similarities between islam and christian’s.believe me we have not been so happy in our life, we learned so much from each other in past 4 years instead of finding the difference in the holy quran and bible we always try to investigate the similarties and peace with in the holy books. i have never met kevin moss because we are on 2 different side of the world but we are connected spiritually.i sent him the link to this site and i know he will be just as happy as i am to read and learn more about the 2 religions.he both are hungry for knowledge. once again thank you so very much.
Hi Fauzia:
Thank you for your comments.
While I have found harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an, I have also found much conflict between current Christian and Islamic religious practises. I believe that if Christians followed the explicit teachings of the Bible and Muslims followed the explicit teachings of the Qur’an, then the only differences between Christians and Muslims would be cultural and not theological.
Let me encourage both Mr Moss and yourself not to avoid discussing what appear to be differences between the Bible and the Qur’an. It is only when such ‘differences’ are brought out of darkness and into the light of scrutiny that the Truth has an opportunity to be revealed. I will happily provide any assistance as requested.
My best regards to you both,
Walter.
I am greatly impressed with this site and you walter. After reading the comment posted by Muslim, i realised the reason why there will hardly be peace in the world. If truely religious beliefs is all about peace to both the rich and needy, then why are killing them instead. God is love, and can never promote terrorism.
I beleive we can still live in peace and harmony if we look at areas of similarities rather differences in our religious beliefs.
Thank you.
Thank you Bala:
Please note that I have not found these differences which Christian and Islamic religious leaders have promoted for the past 1300 years, and which they continue to promote. If only Muslims would read the Bible, then they would realize that there are no significant differences between the Bible and the Qur’an. However, they would realize that there are significant differences between the Islamic religious traditions that they are taught and the Bible.
Regards,
Walter
Wow.. i really commend your effort, am definitely getting a copy.
I was born into a devoted Christian Family and i grew up among Muslims and have a lot of Muslim friends coz i travel a lot, and the hardest feeling is, when u hear things like “ur either with us or ur with them”… religion is meant to unite people.. but in reality it unites people against other people. Thats why i dont like associating with any religion.
I really hope more people get to read your book.
cheers.
Whew! This book has been sitting on my shelf for months and I FINALLY picked it up to read. Not surprisingly, I finished it in two days 🙂
I am a follower of Christ, child of God and reader of the Word. My husband is a devout Muslim. We have already reconciled within ourselves the similarities between Islam and Christianity and our discussions have always been lively and healthy on the differences. Your book has helped liven our debate, thank you 😉 Upon meeting me, he had no Christian friends that were actually readers of the Word and like most Muslims were under the impression we serve three gods..I had to straighten THAT out quick. Likewise, although I grew up surrounded by Islam (my mother and her side of the family are Muslims) I have been taught to believe by Christian theology that Islam is of the devil and never really took the time to investigate for myself..he straightened me out quick. I’ve always said to him, make the distinction between what is TAUGHT and what the BIBLE or specifically what JESUS says. Your book has helped proved my point.
There is still some edgy points you made that I would love to discuss with you, but mostly I would like to know, do you still consider yourself “Christian” or a follower of The Way?
Hi Ska:
I commend you for reading the book in its entirety. Well done! I will hapily engage you on any topic.
I believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and consider myself a Christian and a follower of the Way. I believe that a person can be a Jew or a Muslim and also be followers of the Way.
Best regards
Well said Walter!
I asked the question because others of the Christian religion may not consider you a Christian because clearly you do not believe in the “trinity” as it is spelled out in Christianity, tho I gather you do believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, being born of the SAME Spirit, the One true Creator of the heavens and the earth.
Of course, titles were never important to Christ, only that you believe upon Him and follow the commandments. I have other questions that this venue may not be the best fitting, so maybe you should expect an email from me. 🙂
May the Lord richly bless you,
Sama K. A.
Hi Sama:
I should note that I have not actually formed a definite conclusion on the Trinity as described by Christian tradition, and I do not believe that I actually need to. However, I have found that there is insufficient evidence in the Bible to support the Christian traditional position. Similarly, I have found that there is insufficient evidence in the Qur’an to support the Islamic traditional position. Therefore, I believe that Jesus is exactly who He is described to be in the Bible, and that this Biblical description is consistent with how Jesus is described in the Qur’an. I will happily discuss this with anyone.
Since others may have similar questions to yourself, it may be beneficial to them if we discussed the matter here. Please note that I prefer a discussion, where we try to bring clarity to an issue, rather than a debate, where we try to persuade each other to accept our position through rhetoric.
Regards,
Grenville
Oh Walter (Grenville?)! 😦
You have COMPLETELY thrown out my first three questions with the first line in your last statement. 😉 Forgive me, I was under the impression that you disregarded the trinity belief, and those questions were geared towards how do you reconcile certain scriptures in the Bible. See, the reason why I still call myself a Christian is because I have also not thrown out the trinity belief..with God all things are possible. But I have ALWAYS had major questions. The main reason why this book was so fascinating to me is that in my own personal quest to discover who Jesus is, much of what you wrote was already things I had in my head but not the actual words to formulate them. I’ve taken to reading the Hebraic Roots Version of the Bible, because the entire text is directly from Hebrew/Aramaic translation to English, which makes a world of a difference in the scriptures.
Ok, here’s a question: In your chapter 5 in discussing salvation, you bring up the notion of rewards for good deeds and in the next breath, when discussing assurance for salvation, you use Biblical scripture to support having true grace and forgiveness in your heart as a means of salvation. (correct me if i am wrong.) The problem I am having is that through Christ, we learn that there is NOTHING that we have to do, no extra good deeds to receive salvation just believe upon Him. But I do not find that same notion in the Qur’an, but I do find a lot of doing good deeds to claim assurance into paradise. (lots of prayer, giving alms, etc) I know you will probably just say that the Qur’an refers you back to the Bible, but I feel like if the Qur’an is the true last testament of God as most Muslims believe, then why is there not a definitive statement on how one must be saved?
I guess what I am saying is, I am still not convinced that the Qur’an is inspired scripture or convinced that Muhammad was a prophet of God.
PS: My “debates” are always healthy discussions, and always trying to understand another point of view, even if I don’t adopt it as my own.
Hi Sama:
Sorry about the delay in responding, but I am in Haiti lending assistance, and was a little exhausted the last few days. By the way, Walter happens to be my middle name.
Please note that I am quite willing to discuss the Trinity with you. I agree that with God all things are possible; however, that does not change the fact that the evidence for the currently accepted position is subject to diverse interpretations, and is in conflict with a significant amount of scripture, all of which are carefully presented in Brothers Kept Apart.
Regarding salvation, you have correctly described the religious tradition, but I presented what Jesus actually said. Who better to define salvation than Jesus? If the traditional definition conflicts with what Jesus explicitly described, then I would have thought that the normal response would be logical. Apparently Jesus did not think so. Remember this:
“He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. (Mark 7:9)
Jesus, who will Judge us the end of the age, repeatedly and explicitly explained that if we do not forgive others that God will not forgive us. Neither the Bible nor the Qur’an teach that salvation comes from doing good works. Good works cannot earn salvation; however, both the Bible and the Qur’an teach that they do earn rewards. The Qur’an consistently teaches that Salvation is an act of God towards undeserving man. Remember this:
But ask forgiveness of your Lord, and turn unto Him: For my Lord is indeed full of mercy and loving-kindness. (11:90)
Regarding whether Mohammed was a prophet of God. I suppose that only God can confirm whether Mohammed was actually His prophet. However the evidence, as presented in the Book, supports the position that He was. Perhaps you can present some evidence why you believe that he was not for discussion.
Regards.
Ok, lets talk about Salvation first:
When I made my statement, I was speaking biblically, not traditionally. I’m talking about words straight from the book itself, not just what is taught from the pulpit about salvation. If you look at what Jesus said in John 6:40: “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him might have eternal life and I raise him up in the last day.” Verses 41-69 continue on how Jesus describes Himself as being the Bread of Life and how we should “eat of His flesh and drink of His blood.” (Which we know of course is not a literal cannibalism, but Him really wanting then to absorb, consume and hunger and thirst for him, the Word of God.)
Jesus Himself never gave them any “work” to do except for to believe. He specified the greatest commandments were to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, strength, but also love your neighbor as you love yourself. These aren’t new things or “works”, but simple belief upon him. Forgiveness of others is also nothing new. Now you already tackled much of what “believe in Him” means. But lets go on to what Peter and Paul taught.
In Acts 2:37-40, others asked Peter, what shall we do? and Peter said clearly “Repent and be immersed, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ [HRV actually says ‘in the name of YHWH Yeshua] for the remission of sins, that you might receive the fight of the [Holy Spirit]” In no place did he add any “work” or say “do good deeds” in order to receive salvation.
Paul is the one who spells it out clearly in the entire chapter of Romans 3, stating that we are justified by faith, not by the law or following the Law of Moses. That means that no matter how good we try to follow the law, that is not what is going to save us, but once gain, belief in Christ Jesus. He says very plainly in Ephesians 2:4-9: “But God, who is rich in His mercies, because of His great love with which He loved us, when we were dead in our sins, He gave us life with Messiah [Christ], and by His favor, He saved us…..For by His favor we were SAVED BY FAITH, and this was NOT OF YOURSELVES but is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” These are definitive statements on what one must do to be saved in the Bible itself, that are not in the Qur’an, which puts speculation to me that the Qur’an was not the inspired Word of God.
I am not taking about rewards, for Jesus Himself said that “…..and then He will reward each according to his works.” (Mathew 16:27) but even then He was talking about end times, not salvation. You say that the Qur’an does not teach “good works for salvation” but that is the impression I get when I pick up the Qur’an or ask my Muslim family members, that they have to keep at it –prayers, alms, righteousness, etc – and hope that God has mercy on them….which is unlike what Jesus and His apostles taught, that we are automatically saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. Many Muslims when they come to Christ either have two reactions: Relief that they can rest in their faith and know that they are saved or Anxious when “prayer times” come around that they aren’t on their knees. (I read a book called Secret Believers by Brother Andrew and Al Janssen, which alluded to that information.)
I am sorry that I went through all this, but you started by saying that I described religious tradition, when in fact I was just stating the facts right from the book itself. If you can show me ONE verse, that is not contradictory to the fact that you are saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ Jesus, and not by any good deeds, I will shut up 🙂
I’ll talk about the trinity next, but I written enough for the night. PS: May God reward you greatly for your good and selfless deed in Haiti 🙂
Hi Sama:
When discussing spiritual matters, it is always useful to attach much value on the words of Jesus, who will ultimately judge us at the end of the age.
What do we want to ask Jesus? Well, how about “How can I have everlasting life?” You are probably well aware of Jesus’ answer provided below.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
So we can conclude that we are saved because of an act initiated by God. Our minimum response is to believe. However, there is a further response for us who are not dying immediately and have time to do what is right. Let us ask the question again. Actually, someone already did.
And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying,
“Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
He said to him,
“What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
So he answered and said,
“ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
And He said to him,
“You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.” (Luke 10:25-28)
Jesus then defined his neighbour as someone in need of his assistance.
Perhaps you are also aware of this passage by Jesus.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23)
Also this:
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 5:41-46)
Now, since Jesus will judge us at the end, and He has explicitly explained what we need to be DOING. Therefore, I believe whatever is in the Bible. Salvation is a gift of God – He initiated it. Our minimum requirement is to believe/trust Him. However, following on from that, our response is to love God and proactively help each other.
Regards,
Grenville
“When discussing spiritual matters, it is always useful to attach much value on the words of Jesus, who will ultimately judge us at the end of the age.”
Unfortunately I am one of those silly believers in the entire scripture, not just one part of it. Yes, Jesus’s words do hold weight, for he is the Word of God. But Jesus also said,
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching then to observe ALL THE THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED OF YOU; and lo, I am with you always even to the end of age.” (Mathew28:20)
So to me, Paul and Peter didn’t say anything different, extra or more than what Jesus taught them (give or take cultural context). All that you have wrote is correct. BUT the danger in saying “He has explicitly explained what we need to be DOING.” will confuse those who have not acceptedJesus Christ as Lord and Savior, that they can DO these things and gain access into heaven, which is FALSE.
The FAITH or BELIEF comes first. Now it’s BECAUSE we believe, we do these things, as it is our BELIEF in who he is that compels us love God with all our might, heart, soul and strength, and love our neighbor. I had a pastor once say that we “accidentally” follow the law because we follow Christ, who was sinless.
What I am saying is, we “work” because we have faith. “work” does not bring us salvation, only to be a good person. It is your understanding that we can enter heaven by being a good person, or by believing in Christ, following Christ, thereby being as good a person as Christ has been on this earth?
Again, I am not saying you are wrong, what I am saying is be careful how you word things, especially when talking to unbelievers, and my fear is that many unbelievers will pick up the book and have a not-so-clear-cut belief about what it means to be saved.
Walter,
I found this site as a result of a search for “harmony of Quar’an and Bible”. I’m looking for anywhere there might be a side-by-side comparison of Quar’an verses and corresponding Bible verses, maybe in an Excel-type format. If you’ve heard about one that’s already made, please contact me! God bless you in your efforts for peace and true understanding between Muslims and Christians.
Scott S
Hi Scott:
I could not find an honest comparison of the Bible and the Qur’an. Those done by my fellow Christians and Muslims were done with the intention of identifying differences. They are comparable to identifying the differences between the Gospels of Matthew and Mark, and then claiming that irreconcilable differences exist.
I have written Brothers Kept Apart to fill the obvious need for an honest comparison of the two books. The verses of the Bible and the Qur’an are listed together. Where necessary, the contextual verses are provided in order to ensure a common sense interpretation.
As you may be aware from reading this site, I have found harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an, and I have found it with very little effort. Therefore, I am concerned that Christians and Muslims are being misled by their religious leaders, who continue to claim that there are irreconcilable differences between both books, but who refuse to discuss the matter in order to verify their claims.
Claims of truth should be brought into the light of scrutiny so that such claims can be verified as true.
Regards,
Walter.
Hi Sama:
I am back from my deployment in Haiti, and can devote more time to managing this site.
We seem to be in some agreement. Perhaps the following can be a good way forward.
1. God’s words are most important.
2. Jesus said that He spoke the words that God told Him to speak.
3. God stated that we must hear Jesus (when Jesus was transfigured on the mountain).
4. The Apostles’ words are generally in accordance with Jesus’.
5. If there are differing opinions on an issue, then we should refer to what God and Jesus said.
Now, I understand your position about works. We are in complete agreement that salvation is a gift of God for those who believe, as noted in John 3:16.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
My point is that this verse, and others like it, must be resolved with the others that I have previously identified, which suggests that our behaviour appears to play a significant role in determining our final destination. For example:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
John 3:16 does not say “… that whosever acknowledges Jesus as Lord shall not perish ..”, but rather “…whosoever believes in Him …”.
So the question that begs an answer is: What must we DO to demonstrate that we BELIEVE. When we define the question this way, then all of the other verses simply resolve themselves.
Therefore, we must first believe, and our subsequent actions should demonstrate whether we actually believed.
Best regards,
Walter
the ideal of religion must never be an obstacle to show we are united.let us be one so that we are strong and not divided.I am a 10th grade student and truly believe this
Hi Matt:
All religions can fall into one of two categories. One that directs adherents to submit to, and cultivate a relationship with God, and the other that is designed to keep adherents dependent on the organisation. The former is liberating, the second is burdensome.
Regards.
Don’t be naive and blind. You say you’ve read the bible but you don’t sound like it. The Jews sought to stone Jesus because in his comment about being before Abraham he was stating he was God. Thomas fell and worshipped him calling him my lord and my God. Why does Jesus never say directly I’m God worship me, because thats an infantile thing to say, God would not say such a thing, he wants us to come to that realization. Anything realized by someone is much more real than just being told. Get your facts straight, God took on a human body and tabernacled with us. If I was God I would want to do the same thing, enter into my creation. I think it’s a natural progression to do so. You’re no intellectual and you surely don’t really know the bible.
Ibrahim Ali, Are u a Muslim or Christian???!!!!!!!
Your name is Muslim but your words are Christian.
Hi Ibrahim:
You have made several accusations and conclusions without engaging me in discussion. That is not the way. Let us discuss the matter.
Regards,
Walter
Muslims are proving to be radical through out the world. They openly demonstrate and act the same as the Taliban. They have proven to be a Bully religion, and political correctness is turning Americans into wimps.
Hi…
First of all, I would like to thank you for initiative to find the similarities between the two religions. I also would like to see the differences. I am a Muslim who lived in the states for while; and had the opportunity to discuss both religions there. I admit that I have not read the Bible however I can tell you what I obtained from the horse’s mouth.
Both religions are Godly, they had been sent for different times though. This is what Muslims believe. Muslims believe that at Jesus time, Christianity was the official religion by God. However after 600 years, Christianity went astray and Islam was sent in its place, just like how Judaism went astray and Christianity was sent in its place. Islam acknowledges all heavenly religions since the time God created the earth. Islam finds three core differences between Christianity and its self which Islam is trying to correct. Note that, if not of these differences then Islam = Christianity. These differences are:
1- The Trinity:
Islam core believe is that “There is no Gods but God [Allah]”. Point here is there is only ONE God. Jesus was not God, only the human messenger of God.
2- Jesus WAS NOT Crucified:
Islam doesn’t believe that Jesus was crucified. The crucified person was given by God the looks of Jesus because of that person’s betrayal to Jesus. That is when everybody then thought it was Jesus and crucified the wrong person thinking it was Jesus. Therefore God had raising Jesus unto the heavens until the judgment day and Jesus will descend to rule the world, yes this is what Islam teaches, and we are awaiting Jesus!
3- The Bible is not genuine now:
Over the course of 2000 years now, and 600 years at the time of Islam, the Bible had been modified to fulfill humanely interests of politics and power. Not everything is altered, however it cannot be trusted. Islam is teaching that we should pick up the similarities between both books and leave the rest because of our certainties that it is not genuine.
Other than that I find both religions teaching the same principles. Also as a response to Gary above, I would like to emphasis the literal translation of ISLAM which is PEACE. Therefore, don’t let a minority let you misjudge the majority.
Thank you and Peace be upon you.
If you don’t mind, Walter, let me address Abdullah please?
The fact that you have said that you have never read the Bible completely negates everything you have to say; for you cannot speak on what you do not know. Your understanding “from the horse’s mouth” is no different that Christians who have never read the Qu’ran or understood it for themselves going around saying all Muslims are terrorists, simply because they heard what Osama Bin Laden has said. So my advice is to read the Word yourself, get an understanding for yourself, then come back with a response, for your points clearly prove you have never read the Bible.
For example, your point 1: NOT ONE Christian believes in three gods or three spirits or anything of the sort. If you are a Christian and you believe in the Word as it is written, it is EXPLICIT that there is ONE GOD, from old testament to new testament scriptures. The Trinity is human way we explain what we know GOD to be: Father, Son( or Word), Holy Spirit. As the body is made up of three main elements — blood, water, spirit — all three must co-exist to be ONE. Ephesians 4:4-6 — There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.
Point 2: We believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Anointed One, Son of the Most High, ordained by God to die for our sins. You may not believe that, but that is what the Word says, and that is what we believe. What you wrote here about someone looking like Jesus to be crucified is NOT in the Qu’ran therefore it is NOT even what your prophet believed, yet you like many other Muslims believe this..why is that???
Point 3: Another belief of Islamic tradition that your prophet did not believe NOR did he teach!!! The Qu’ran said to believe in all the books that came before, the Torah and the Gospels yet for whatever reason, Islamic tradition teaches that somehow have a false version of the truth. I have a Hebraic Roots Version of the bible, the translation is directly from Hebrew and Aramaic roots and there are slight differences but none of the major alterations that Islamic tradition had brainwashed you all into thinking. Which is sad, the Bible is the bread of Life and without it most ppl, regardless of their religion, is lost.
Abdullah, Christianity is not a religion. It is a way of life. Following Christ does not make us infidels or pagans, it makes us worthy and righteous in God’s eyes. Jesus didn’t come here to give us a religion, he came to give us LIFE. The main difference between what you believe and what I believe is that we have the true Jesus and Muslims do not, and its not because of what the Qu’ran says, its because of Islamic tradition is teaching you all to believe.
Walter,
On April 6th, you asked me “What must we DO to demonstrate that we BELIEVE.” My question to you is, Who are we demonstrating FOR?
The Lord knows our hearts, it doesn’t matter how much outwardly “demonstrating” we do, only God knows if we truly believe in Him.
My point is, because we believe, we automatically do things, behave in a certain way, because the Spirit lives within. Thats how you can sort of tell someone who is walking the walk, because the fruits of the spirit just come pouring out — love, kindness, patience, long-suffering, peace, faithfulness, honesty, etc. But even when you dont see those things outwardly all the time, that still doesnt mean anything because we dont know what is in a person’s heart. Only He does. So my answer is, do nothing. Just believe. Have faith. and let God do the rest. 🙂
I dont have to agree with everything you wrote to appreciate the book and accept you as my brother in Christ. 🙂 And I truly do appreciate the book.
Hi Gary:
While America’s recent response to Islam appears to be an over-abundance of caution reflected in politically correct behavior, the cause of this response appears to be fear. Hence, the Islamic terror groups and their supporters have achieved their principal goal – to ensure that a nation’s policy decisions are based on a fear of the consequences of non-compliance with their increasingly intrusive demands.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Abdullah:
I am aware of the Islamic teachings which you have described. However, many are not supported by the Qur’an, and actually damage the integrity of several verses in the Qur’an. All of these traditions are honestly examined in Brothers Kept Apart.
Based on the available evidence, it would appear that Mohammed accepted the validity of the Gospels and the Old Testament scriptures, which He instructed his followers to believe. However, he noticed the corrupt behaviour of the Christians with whom he came into contact, and noted its similarities with behaviour of the Jews. He wanted to ensure that his followers did not suffer the same fate, and recited a method of ensuring a measure of sustainability.
Just like Christianity is Judaism plus the words of the Messiah, Islam is supposed to be Christianity plus the sustainable method recited by Mohammed. The method includes: obligatory fasting, praying 5 times each day, and giving a portion of your resources to charity. These items do not conflict with the Gospel.
The problem is that Islamic tradition has rejected Mohammed’s instruction to believe in the Messiah, Jesus, and to believe the Gospel, by developing a tradition that claims that the Bible is corrupted beyond redemption. Therefore, only the Qur’an is valid. However, we have Bibles that were around during and before the time of Mohammed. Therefore, regardless of the state of corruption, Mohammed determined that they were good enough to be believed, followed, copied, and distributed to other nations without compensation.
About the differences. Please note that the differences were not theologically based. Therefore, if Christians believed and followed the Bible, and Muslims believed and followed the Qur’an, then there would be no theological differences between then – only cultural.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Sama:
I think that you will appreciate my third book. It compares popular and common Christian traditions with what Jesus actually taught. It should be out in about one month. I am gravely concerned that we appear to have rejected Jesus’ explicit teachings on salvation and other things, and have instead clung to our denomination’s definition.
Regards, your brother in Christ,
Walter
I had to ask myself the question, has that preacher read the Quran before he decided to burn it, or is his information based on what he has heard? I looked at the first two books of the Quran and found a lot of parallels to the Bible. I posted what I had found. http://biblecompare.wordpress.com/
Hi Advent:
It is unlikely that he read it. When I first read it, I did so with much trepidation, because I had been taught that it was evil. Christians do not need to read the Qur’an. However, if they plan to criticize it, then they should do so from a position of knowledge.
Regards,
Walter.
Hello Sama,
I really appreicate the time that you had givin in responding. please allow me to thank you for your balanced resonse. I admited that i have not read the Bible as a whole,however i did read parts of it. The only thing that makes it hard to follow is the many versions of the Bible that contradects each other. I take it that you have not read the Quran either, you will see what i mean in my response to point 2.
Response to Points 1:
“They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. ” 05-73
Response to Point 2:
“That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not” 04-157
“Behold! God said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. ” 03-55
Response to Point 3:
“Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:”This is from God,” to traffic with it for a miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.” 02-79
Also please see the below link, even though the Bible of Barnabas conflicts with major issues with Quran, it still confirms points 1 and 2, and proof point 3 by having multiple versions of the Bible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas
Thank you for taking the time to read this, and i really hope what we have constructive debate away from hatered to God’s religions.
Hi Walter,
The key words by Allah are to believe in Jesus the Messiah totally and completely, also to believe in all previous prophets and messengers and their books. However, can you get me one unified copy of the Bible today? That is the reason that Islam takes the Bibble as altered by humans. The original Bibble is true and believed by Muslims.
One thing that I need to clear, the Bibble is the word of God coming from Jesus. It is written as a story told by Jesus to world about God. However, Quran is the ACTUAL word of God “Allah”. It has descended by Gabriel to Muhammad. The reader will notice that God is talking not Muhammad. In my defense of the Quran, there is only ONE copy of it no matter where you look. This is because Allah promised in Quran that he will keep it genuine.
Thank you once more for creating this website to discuss issues that normally is taking for granted by both parties and one last thing, would you please tell me more about the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Hi Abdullah:
I admire your honesty and willingness to discuss these matters. We should strive to learn the Truth, wherever the Truth may be found.
I think that we agree that Mohammed instructed Muslims to believe the Bible. However, Islamic tradition teaches that Muslims do not have to follow this instruction, or the instruction to copy and distribute the Bible to other nations, because it assumes that the Bible was corrupted beyond redemption.
We can easily test this assumption by comparing copies of Bibles that existed before and during the time of Mohammed (around 600 AD) to copies of Bibles that we have today.
The Bible that was most likely available to Mohammed was a copy of the Codex Sinaiticus, which was available in Egypt and widely copied about 300 years before Mohammed. I have linked to a copy on the Recommended Internet Resources section of this website. However, other early Bibles were also available, including the Codex Vaticanus (325 AD), and the Codex Alexandrinus (450 AD).
The information within these earlier Bibles can be compared with earlier Biblical manuscripts like the Nash Papyrus that contains the 10 commandments and was dated 2nd century BC, the Dead Sea Scrolls which contain around 25 books of the Old Testament and were dated 2nd century BC to 1st century AD, and the Papyrus Bodmer (p66) II which contains most of the Gospel of John and dated 125 AD.
These comparisons show that any errors in copying the Bible were negligible. Further, the differences between current Bible translations are minor and do not materially change the message. Therefore, Muslims have no excuse for not complying with Mohammed’s instructions on this matter.
Please be advised that any version of the Bible that you choose can provide you with sufficient information. I would recommend the New King James version.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Abdullah:
Let me provide a brief response to your query to Sama using your reference numbers.
1. The trinity referred to in the Qur’an was a trinity of father, mother and son. I am unaware of any Christian tradition teaching this concept today.
2. If you will examine the verses in context, the Qur’an does not teach that Jesus was not crucified, but that He was not crucified by the Jews.
3. Mohammed’s criticism of religious leaders was almost as severe as Jesus’. Both Jesus and Mohammed criticized the religious leaders’ corrupt practices.
Regards,
Walter
There is only one Lord and Christ Jesus…Forget the koran and follow God.
respected walter,
first of all i cordially thank you for your excellent work to minimise the gap between christan and muslim who believe the existance of only one god. your bible is one fourth of qur’an.the original name of bible is ingile which is directly gift of allah at the time of isha allaisallam to human beings.
regards and thanks.
ayub hossain
Hi Henry:
If you are a Christian, the the Qur’an does not require that you read it, only that you be faithful to the Gospel.
Regards.
Hi Ayub:
Thank you for your kind comments.
Please note that the Injeel appears to refer to the Gospel and not the entire Bible. See below.
I believe that the Ingeel referred to in the Qur’an, and which Islamic tradition claims was lost, is the Diatessaron. Allow me to explain.
Tatian combined the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John into one document called the Diatessaron, which was in circulation by 172 AD. Church historian Eusebius noted its use in his Church History, which was published in full c.325 AD.
The Diatessaron, which was also called the Gospel or Euaggelion (which could be where Ingeel came from), was commonly used in churches in Syria. There is a copy of an Arabic translation of a commentary on the Diatessaron, by Ephraem the Syrian (306–373 AD), in the Vatican library.
When Theodoret became bishop of a diocese in Syria in 423 AD, he reported that the diocese was 1,600 square miles in area and comprised 800 churches. He noted that the Diatessaron was commonly used, and reported replacing at least 200 copies of the Diatessaron with the four Gospel versions. His principal concern appeared to be the absence of a genealogical record of Jesus in the Diatessaron. While it cannot be conclusively proven, it is possible that the Gospel, or Ingeel, referred to in the Qur’an is the Diatessaron of Tatian, which was popular in the region.
Regards,
Walter.
respected walter,
may allah pour peace,prosperity and mercy upon u. allah has sent 124000 messengers to give the instructions to his beloved human beings.adam alaisallam is the ancient father of human being. in this way allah has sent four holy books upon his four reliable messengers.holy book the jabur is sent upon dawood alaisallam.the holy book toyrat is sent upon musah alaisallam.the holy book ingeel is sent upon isha alaisallam. the last holy book qur’an is sent upon hazrat mohd sallilahu alaihi o salam. allah has taken whole responsibility to save the qur’an as the earlier three holy books have not been taken care by human being and original names of all characters have also been changed by the human beings day by day.
regards
ayub hossain
Hi Ayub:
I think that I understand what you mean. There are many messengers who have come before. However, only 4 holy books ascribed to have come from God. The first 3 are in the Bible and the final one is the Qur’an.
First, I have no way of confirming the 124,000 figure.
Secondly, since the Qur’an is not ordered chronologically, it is more difficult to understand than the Bible. Yet, after careful study, I have found harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an without compromising any teaching in either book. Therefore, perhaps it is not the Bible that has been corrupted, but rather, it is the Qur’an that is challenging to understand.
Regards,
Walter
Dear Walter:
I have to admit that I have yet to see the efforts you have undertaken replicated thus far. I am proud to call you a brother in our faith. I am fascinated by your research and I would like to present a few of my concerns.
I am a convert from Christianity to Islam. In doing so, I have rejected the notion of Christ as SON of GOD and SAVIOR of mankind in the sense of us being saved only through belief in him as son of GOD. Having found even within my own faith Islam, the same discrepancy that you point out between what the religion teaches and what is actually practised and taught in both religions, I have learned to “weed out” those things that I believe are not “legit” if you will.
My question to you is : “Based on your research and your own claim that Mohammed (PBUH) was in all likelihood a prophet sent by God, what do you believe that Mohammed believed about Jesus as SON OF GOD? And what is your view on the practice of worshiping of Jesus Christ as SON of GOD. The actual WORSHIP of Jesus as God which you and I know is the norm in most Christian Churches, is one of the reasons that I left Christianity and accepted Islam. Could you elaborate?
Walter, it appears you have a good heart and wish to bring peace to everyone, which is something good. But I believe you have really missed the boat when it comes to the two different groups.
Christianity is a religion. Islam is a theocracy. The separation of those two alone would be enough to say the differences are too vast to try and link together. But to add to that, intolerance is a basic theme of the Qur’an.
You stated people have to put into context the Islamic empire and the Qur’an. As a theocracy, they are one in the same, which is why we have Muslim terrorists today. You started to address the issue of Muslims being ordered to kill Christians and destroy churches. I say started because you answered the part about churches being destroyed but side stepped the issue of killing Christians or any other kafir, or “non believer”. The Qur’an says: “Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush” (Surah 9:5) While we may believe in the same God, that passage doesn’t make it favorable for a Christian to want to invite them for supper.
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). (3:85)
You also brought up the issue of Jesus and it’s unclear to me whether you believe in the Trinity or not. Muslims believe Jesus was a Messiah and Muhammad a Prophet. The problem is, a Messiah is only a step up from a prophet in the minds of Muslims. Granted Muslim’s and Christians agree on how Jesus arrived on earth, but Muslims do not believe He is the Son of God. Every Christian knows that is a major step to Christianity.
But then we have some who proclaim we are to be at peace and that Islam actually means “peace” instead of submission. They do this because they believe it is correct to make up rules as they go if they are not specifically spelled out in the Qur’an. Muslims must follow a rule formulated for him as a good Muslim. A Muslim will find the rule in the Sharia, which is in the first instance on the Qur’an, in the second instance on the Hadith, the Traditions, in the third instance on Ijma’, the consensus of the community, and in the fourth instance on qiyas, the application of analogical reasoning to the other three sources for the deduction of new rules. Obviously, the Prophet’s intention was that the community should be a single community and the Shari’a its common rule of life. (Islam: Muhammad and His Religion, Arthur Jeffery, 1958, p xi-xiv)
It would be absolutely wonderful for us all to get along. The problem isn’t because we can’t. It’s because we don’t. The early writings in the Bible talk about fighting, an eye for an eye type living. The early writings of the Qur’an are about peace and how to live in harmony. Then they both swapped. The New Testament of the Bible talks of peace, forgiveness and turning the other cheek. The newer verses in the Qur’an are about having jihad, a holy war, killing all kafir. The qur’an says if there is a conflict between verses, use the newest verse. The jihad therefore overrules the peace.
respected walter,
assam o alai cum wa rahamatullah wa barakatuhu(may allah pour peace ,happiness and prosperity upon you).due to some terrorist none should blame islam. jihad means to control yourslf from cruelty,unfair sex,greediness and raise the voice against the injustice in our society. on the other hand in surah akhlash ,it has mentioned that allah is one ,he has no father, no mother,no son,no daughter,no wife and he expects nothing but total submission to allah.but our beloved nasarah(christan) brothers and sisters claim that ishah alaihisallam is son of god.then what is the relationship between allah and marriom?.this concept is not acceptable in islam.such type of thinking is a great sin and not merciable.
on the other hand none can dare to change a single alphabet of qur’an in this world as it has been memorized million of people in islam.
regards and thanks
ayub hossain
Hi…
This is in response to Michael. I have seen that you made a statment about how Muslims favor killings over Peace based on another statment saying “The qur’an says if there is a conflict between verses, use the newest verse. The jihad therefore overrules the peace”. Please show me where in Quran has this been said? Quran is a whole, it is complete, no conflicts in Quran whatsoever. No new and old versus, it should be comprehended as whole. “If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur’an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support. “17-88.
Regarding the versue that you qouted about the fight with Kafirs, please note that Quran came for all places and times. This versue was describing the situation of Islam at its begining and how it should spread when everyone at that time was FIGHING Islam to diminish it. I want you and the reader not get the veruse out of context and read the versus befor and after get a better understanding of the situation. Please read carefully, since Qurain has desended in Arabic, Engligh may trick you in not understanding.
009.001 A (declaration) of immunity from God and His Apostle, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
009.002 Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate God (by your falsehood) but that God will cover with shame those who reject Him.
009.003 And an announcement from God and His Apostle, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that God and His Apostle dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate God. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
009.004 (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God loveth the righteous.
009.005 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
009.006 If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
009.007 How can there be a league, before God and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God doth love the righteous.
009.008 How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.
009.009 The Signs of God have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.
009.010 In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.
009.011 But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.
009.012 But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.
009.013 Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Apostle, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is God Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
These versus are guides to Muslims when they are at War, and as far as i know, no war is present. Dont take terrorist as exambles of Muslims, since Islam states that Muslims should follow the Immam and the Immam says that we are at a treaty.
God Bless your heart and open your sould for enlightment. Peace.
Hi Nuseiba:
I apologize for the delayed response, but I have just returned from an assignment in Haiti and was unable to respond to you while I was there. You have asked some piercing questions, all of which I have answered in Brothers Kept Apart, and which I will summarize here.
Before I provide you with my opinion based on my research to-date, let us understand some basic information.
Mohammad identified Jesus as the Messiah, and instructed Muslims to believe the books that came before, specifically those written by the Old Testament prophets. One of the most authenticated Old Testament books is by the prophet Isaiah, which is also contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls in its entirety. Prophet Isaiah described the role of the Messiah and noted that He was to be God’s servant who would pay the penalty of sin for mankind. A sample of Isaiah chapter 53 follows.
In the Gospel, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and stated that no one could come to God except through Him. Mohammed stated that Muslims must believe the Gospel. He also indicated that Muslims should aim to cultivate a personal relationship with God.
Now to what I believe based on my research.
Firstly, I believe that there is insufficient Biblical evidence to support the Christian denominational tradition that Jesus is God, which is an unnecessary barrier to Muslims.
Secondly, the concept of Son of God that Mohammed was objecting to was consequential to his rejection of God having a son through sexual intercourse, which was being taught in the region during the time of Mohammed.
Thirdly, I do not believe that Mohammed initially intended to start a religion. He observed that the Jews and Christians were unable to sustain a faithful relationship with God. He instructed his followers to submit to the God of the Jews and Christians, acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah, believe the Gospel, and then perform obligatory traditions to ensure the sustainability of their relationship with God. The obligatory traditions included praying 5 times each day, fasting, and giving to the poor.
During the time of Mohammed, Christianity had developed into several denominations, each believing that it held the truth. Today, we have, inter aila, Anglicanism, with Anglican adherents, Methodism, with Methodist adherents, and Roman Catholicism with Roman Catholic adherents.
I believe that Mohamed was trying to establish a sustainable Christian denomination, called Islam, with its adherents called Muslims. However, since the corrupt Christian leaders with whom he came into contact rejected him, he was forced to start a new religion called Islam.
I believe that Islamic religious tradition is similar to where Christian religious tradition was approximately 500 years ago, and they are ready for a reformation.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Michael:
I will respond to each of your assertions.
1. Are Muslims instructed to kill Christians?
The Qur’an does not teach Muslims to kill Christians and it does not equate Christians with pagans.
2. Is Islam the only true religion?
The Qur’an is clear that Islam means to “submit to God”, which is done by Jews, Christians and Muslims. Other evidence follows.
3. Is Jesus the Son of God?
Mohammed was objecting to the concept of God having children through sexual intercourse. Further, Mohammed instructed Muslims to believe the Old Testament Prophets and the Gospel, which explains the Messiah’s role. Therefore, while you have accurately described what Islam teaches, my concern is what the Qur’an actually teaches.
4. Does Jihad overrule peace?
The Islamic tradition of abrogation has resulted in much confusion. The Qur’an, like the Bible, must be read with a fair degree of common sense. If a Christian soldier is on the battlefield, then he is not expected to turn the other cheek. However, when he is off of the battlefield, then he is. The behavior of Islamic warriors during the time of Jihad is similar. The problem is that most Muslims mistakenly believe that the Jihad has not ended.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Ayub:
Thank you for your kind words.
The concept of God having a child, Jesus, through sexual relations with Mary, is as offensive to Christians as it is to Muslims. Both Christians and Muslims believe Jesus to have had a virgin birth.
Mohammed appears to reject the concept of Son of God as taught to him by corrupt religious leaders. Mohammed instructed Muslims to believe the Gospel, which explicitly and repeatedly describes Jesus as the Son of God.
Regards,
Grenville
respected walter,
if ishah allaihisam is a son of allah ,he can’t die.he was kept in the first layer of sky and he will come on the earth as a follower of mohd sallilahu alaihi wa sallm. during his second appearance he will marry and teach islam in this world.at that time which religion will u follow ? so u r earneatly requested to read the latest holy book al qur’an. before birth of mohd sallilahu alaihi wa sallam ishah allaihiwasallam would take whole responsibility to save the human beings from the fire of zahannam,hell. when mohd sallilahu alaihi wa sallam was awarded nabiwati through gabriel allaihiwasallam a angel of allah ,pl follow the path of mohd sallilahu alai wa sallam deschribed in the qur’an and read the ingeel in original form .it will help u to understand the whole matters.
regards and thanks
ayub hossain
Hi Walter,
I GREATLY appreciate all your responses and how you address all these answers, from Christians and Muslims alike. My husband (who I have already mentioned is Muslim) has few questions:
1) When you decided to study Islam and the Qu’ran, how did you do it exactly? Who did you study under (which scholars)?
2) Did you go through the methodology of interpreting the Qu’ran or are these views your own interpretation? (For example, did you look for an understanding of a verse in the same way the companions of Mohammad understood it? Did you look for other verses to compliment or amplify a verse you were studying?)
(I think he’s trying to discredit you, lol)
— Sama
Hi Ayub:
I have stated that there is harmony between the Bible and the Qur’an and not between the Bible and Islamic tradition. Therefore, please provide the Quranic reference for the various traditions that you have described?
You should be aware that the Gospels have similar teachings to some of what you have identified, which I will describe below.
1. Jesus’ disciples did see Jesus rise into the clouds, and an angel said that He would return in like manner.
2. The Bible teaches that Jesus will return and marry the Church, which is described as His bride. The Church comprises those who have eternal life. Jesus explained eternal life in this manner:
Currently, the Bible and the Qur’an are the only two principal religious that instruct their adherents to believe in the only true God, and in the Messiah (or Christ), Jesus. Who is the only true God? Both the Bible and the Qur’an identify Him as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which is how God said that He was to be identified.
Therefore, both believing Christians and believing Muslims are part of the Church.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Sama:
I am happy to open myself up to rigorous scrutiny, because I do not want to spread error into this world. Therefore, your husband, and anyone is free to request any relevant information, and I will happily respond.
When I read the Qur’an for the first time, I understood most of it, but its non-chronological ordering made it challenging to put each chapter in its context. Why did I understand most of it? I understood it for the following reasons:
1. To understand the Qur’an, one must understand the Bible to which it refers, and I have spent approximately 30 years studying the Bible and early civilizations.
2. To understand the Qur’an, one must understand the Christian traditions that were being taught around the Arabian peninsula before and during the time of Mohammed, to which the Qur’an responds. I am knowledgeable about these traditions, having studied over 20,000 pages of early church history, including the following:
• Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37 AD–circa 100 AD) who wrote a history of Israel from the beginning to c.94 AD.
• Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus (c.56 AD–c.117 AD) who wrote a history of the Roman Empire from 14 AD to c.96 AD.
• Church historian Eusebius (c.263 AD–c.339 AD) who wrote a history of the Church from c.0 AD to c.325 AD.
• Church historian Socrates of Constantinople (c.380 AD–unknown) who wrote a history of the Church from 30 AD–429 AD.
• Church historian Jerome (c.347–420 AD) who wrote a history of the Church to c.380 AD.
• Church historian Sozomen (c.400 AD–c.450 AD) who wrote a history of the Church from 323 AD to 423 AD.
• Church historian Theodoret (c.393 AD–c.497 AD) who wrote a history of the Church from c.318 AD to 429 AD.
• Muslim historian Ibn Ishaq (c.704–c.767 AD) who wrote a biography of Mohammed and included events from before c.400 AD to c.632 AD.
3. To properly understand the Qur’an, it needs to be read in chronological order. I have prepared a likely chronological order by studying early Islamic history and traditions. I hope that someday, someone will be courageous enough to publish the Qur’an in chronological order.
4. With all of this pre-requisite knowledge, I then studied, in their entirety, the following English translations of the Qur’an.
• Ahmed Ali, whose translation was published in 1984, and revised in 1994;
• M. H. Shakir, whose translation was published in 1983;
• Abdullah Yusuf Ali, whose translation was first published in 1938;
• Marmaduke Mohammad Pickthall, whose translation was first published in 1930; and
• Muhammed Taqi-ud-Din Al Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan, whose translation was published in 1985.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Everyone:
In order to address the evidence of who Jesus is, I have extracted two sections from Brothers Kept Apart. “Who is Jesus according to the Bible?” and “Who is Jesus according to Christian denominational tradition?“. We can discuss any issues regarding the nature of Jesus there.
Regards,
Walter
respected walter,
assalam o alaicum, u can’t imagine how much mohd sallillahu alaihi wa sallam loves ishah allaihiwasallam that one space beside the grave of mohd sallilahu wa sallam is kept vaccant for ishah allaihi wa sallam.but unfortunately being a nashara u can not visit that holy place which is illuminated with the light of allah which is visible from moon.after reaching on the moon mrs sunita willium tried to see the earth and observed that whole earth was full of darkness except the two place one is makkah and another is madinah.she tried to take photo of the earth .only the two place was visible in her photoghagh.she tried to listen the sound from the earth but failed to listen anything except azan from makkah. after reading the qur’an she accepts the islam.in this world the nasara community has knowledge and power to alter the name of allah also .they even try to alter the qur’an alter. but it is not possible .they have already changed the many names.
thanks
ayub
Hi Ayub:
Once again you have provided some aspects of Islamic tradition. Islamic tradition can be placed into three categories.
1. Traditions that are supported by the Qur’an.
2. Traditions that conflict with the Qur’an.
3. Traditions that the Qur’an neither supports not conflicts with.
For your information, Christian traditions can be placed in similar categories.
Rather than spend decades untangling the tenets of the various religious traditions, our time would be better served by examining the truth in the Bible and in the Qur’an. Therefore, when you are describing an Islamic tradition, please provide the supporting verse from the Qur’an.
Regards,
Walter
A highly interesting debate!
I am sure our website http://www.bibleandkoran.net will be helpful, as will my book called
Sharing Mary, Bible and Qur’an Side by side,
more details at Amazon.com
Marlies ter Borg
Hi Marlies:
You have provided an interesting link which I have reviewed. Please be advised that your interpretations of the Qur’an damage the integrity of several verses in Qur’an – for example, your interpretation that Jesus was not crucified.
The Qur’an does not teach that Jesus was not crucified, rather, that He was not crucified by the Jews. Imams and Sheikhs have assumed that the statement that He was not crucified by the Jews meant that He was not crucified at all. However, this assumption was never verified but simply accepted. Please read the relevant section in Brothers Kept Apart and let us discuss.
Regards,
Walter.
I find your blog very, very fascinating as a Christian who spent 3 years living in the Middle East, immersed in Muslim culture. After earnestly researching Islam and particularly its beliefs about Christians (for example, their perspective on the doctrine of the Trinity), I came to the point of asking many questions about my own faith. I came to the conclusion that Islam and Christianity may be just as you describe–brothers kept apart by ignorance, fear and misunderstandings. I do believe there is the ONE true God and saw the fruit of values I would consider godly in so many of my Muslim friends. I saw their earnest pursuit of God.
So why then , did I not become Muslim if I have such a great respect for Islam? There are still too many questions in my mind that do not settle the questions as to who had the correct interpretion of God’s message of love and peace to the whole world. Much of my questions relate to the hadith and to the sunnah. These traditions are the basis for much confusion in the Muslim and non-Muslim world. Are Muslims required to try to make heads or tails of them, as well as the Quran? I feel that some of the hadith I have read are in direct contradiction to my beliefs.
An additional source of confusion for me is the live of the Prophet Muhammad. There are some very confusing accounts of his life and behavior which do not make sense to me. I am sure you probably have heard many debates involving habits of the Prophet that are considered negative to Christians (the marriage to Aisha at such a young age being one of the most talked about). So, in history, there are people who have clearly raised questions about Muhammad’s character, but who has impeached Christ’s character in this way? None, as far as I can tell–not even Muslims.
Additionally, the standard to which Muslims are held is very high if they are following the Quran. As is the standard for Christians following the gospel of Christ. But it does appear to me (and maybe this is my bias) that the Christian standard is much higher as it means to our conduct in reference to one another. Sadly, this is not how many Christians practice, but it is clearly written in Christ’s words. To me it seems that Christ specifically came to encourage people to focus on their spiritual state, not their physical one. Islam came 600 years later and again placed restrictions on many EXTERNAL things–religious ritual, attire, habits, dietary laws, and the Sharia to control things to the letter. I have read many Muslims say that this is better because there is nothing left up for man to try to decipher on their own–Allah is so merciful that He put into place everything so it would be easier to live in harmony with one another and with Allah. But it is possible to do everything *right* by external standards and not be the least bit changed internally. I think that is at the very core of what Christ came to address. In doing so, he deliberately removed the concept of bondage to religious rituals and gave us the freedom to choose to live the way God intended it to be–freely choosing to follow God and to focus on our internal state of being. Though there is “no compulsion in religion” in Islam, there have been verses I have seen in the religious texts of Islam that to me seem to indicate that Prophet Muhammad did not share that view. What is a Christian to make of this?
*looks below and nods* Augusta, may God richly bless you in your wisdom and insight!
There are some fundamental differences in what Christians believe and what Muslims believe; and I agree that these beliefs should not keep us “apart” but rather give us deeper insight on who God is and what His expectations of us are. The bottom line is, Muslims are still under the law, so to speak and they see nothing wrong with it (on the contrary, have added more laws on top of laws) where as Christians are free from the law, because we believe Christ has set us free.
So here is what I think: I think Muslims need to start asking themselves, what exactly did Muhammad believe? And I think Christians need to start reading their bibles directly instead of listening to other pastors/preachers tell them what’s in it. That is the only way we are going to come together, at least closer than what we are now.
Hi Augusta:
Thank you for raising 4 important issues, which I shall address below.
1. Contradictions in the Hadith and the Sunnah.
Many of the Islamic traditions in the hadith and sunnah conflict with the teachings of the Qur’an. Where such occurs, Muslim religious leaders claim that the Qur’an must take priority. However, most, if not all of them willingly embrace such conflicting traditions in order to avoid addressing the inconvenient verses in the Qur’an.
2. Mohammed’s Lifestyle
Mohammed’s behaviour that is typically considered to be offensive (authorising assassinations, marrying young Aisha, etc) is not recorded in the Qur’an. However, there is sufficient credible evidence to conclude that they did occur. We should note that for the first 50 years of his life, his behaviour appeared to be exemplary. Only after his wife and uncle died, and he became more of a state leader, did his behaviour include some questionable actions.
We should note that God called persons with character flaws, like the murder and adulterer, David, and the disobedient prophet Jonah. Therefore, if we are going to judge Mohammed’s behaviour, then we should do so fairly.
3. Religious Rituals
Mohammed appeared to observe that several Christian traditions were not sustainable. He did not appear to intend to start a new religion. Rather, he seemed to want to start a Christian denomination with traditions which he considered to be more sustainable than those which he observed. Therefore, in addition to believing and following the words of Jesus, he instructed his followers to: pray 5 times per day, fast, give to charity, and to congregate in Mecca at least once in their lifetime in order to ensure that their traditions were consistent with the truth.
4. Jesus’ Mission
You noted: “To me it seems that Christ specifically came to encourage people to focus on their spiritual state, not their physical one.”
I believe that there is sufficient evidence to show that Jesus came to encourage us to focus on loving God above all else, and our neighbours as ourselves. When we are called up to give an account, Jesus explained that it will be the meaningful assistance that we provided to others in need that will be important, not what we have spoken. Jesus asked us to focus on loving in deed and in truth, rather in tongue and word. Reference verses are available upon request.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Sama:
Christ came to release us from the bondage of the law. However, once released, and reconciled to God, we are expected to obey the spirit of the law in order to prepare us to be guided by the Spirit of God.
Muslims are kept in perpetual bondage, by their religious leaders, to obey the letter of the law. Obeying the letter of the law is appropriate for infants. However, one must grow to obey the spirit of the law.
Jesus explained:
The Jewish religious leaders (scribes and Pharisees) obeyed the letter of the law. Jesus called us to obey the spirit of the law. For example, see the contextual verses which follow.
Murder is the letter of the law. Being angry with your brother without a cause is the intent or spirit of the law.
Regards,
Walter
“Christ came to release us from the bondage of the law. However, once released, and reconciled to God, we are expected to obey the spirit of the law in order to prepare us to be guided by the Spirit of God.”
And here is my argument (and we can agree to disagree), that once we accept Christ, in out attempt to do as He did and live as He lived, we are already obeying the “spirit of the law”. We do not have to have a set of rules upon rules to know what God expects from us, we just imitate Christ. And it is the Holy Spirit that nudges us in the right direction, in the footsteps of our Lord, but of course we still have free will, to listen to the Spirit or listen to do what the flesh wants.
In other words: Christ already obeyed the Spirit of the law…in fact, He IS the Spirit of the law, therefore by obeying the teachings of Christ, we are already obeying the law. I agree that the legalism and traditions of the Church are dangerous, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater, for lack of a better analogy. From Romans, to Coriththians to Colossians to Galatians Paul talks about this, and i think this is what Muslims are missing: they are trying so hard to keep up with the letter of the law AND Sharia law that they are missing not only the reconcilation with God but the fellowship with God as well.
Hi Sama:
Sorry about this delayed response. I simply did not notice your post.
We seem to have reached some agreement. We must imitate Christ. How do we do this? We must follow Jesus’ commandments and be guided by God’s Spirit. Mohammed encouraged Muslims to follow Jesus’ example, but Islamic religious tradition leads Muslims away from their Messiah in violation of Mohammed’s explicit instructions as contained in the Qur’an.
Regards,
Walter.
“Mohammed encouraged Muslims to follow Jesus’ example, but Islamic religious tradition leads Muslims away from their Messiah in violation of Mohammed’s explicit instructions as contained in the Qur’an.”
Wow..so your argument is that Mohammed taught his followers to believe in Jesus as the Christ (although lets admit there was some legalism in there because they were taught to pray a certain way, eat a certain way, live a certain way, etc) as we believe him to be, yet somewhere along the way that message was lost…..You are going to be hard presed to find ANY muslim that belives this you know. This sounds more like a hypothesis than a fact. But in keeping an open mind, i can see this….
I always say that the one thing that keeps us apart is the belief in Jesus and not surprisingly its the one thing all muslims need to believe to be saved. A trick of the adversary, no doubt.
Hi Sama:
In response.
1. Please note that what you are calling legalism is simply called traditions and rituals in our churches. The Christian Islamic tradition of praying is similar to the Christian Anglican, Moravian, Baptist, and Methodist tradition, except Islam prescribes 5 times per day.
2. The message is not lost, for it remains within the Qur’an. The problem is that it is being ignored. Some Christian religious denominations also ignore inconvenient words of Jesus.
3. The fact is that few Muslims are bold enough to release their grip on their Imam’s interpretation of the Qur’an, and be willing to accept the Qur’an at “face value”.
4. I believe that the only thing keeping Christians and Muslims apart is their taught belief that there are irreconcilable differences between the Bible and the Qur’an.
Regards,
Walter
I was glad to see you write the below paragraph. It confirms my belief that all the problems with religion come from man trying to “re-invent” the message from Jesus. Mohammed was not “forced” to start a new religion except in his own mind. If Mohammed had simply adhered to what Jesus said and fought the corruption he saw, we would not be having the problems we are having today. Could/would you define what you meant by “sustainable” and by “corrupt”?
Hi Richard:
1. Since the Christian religious leaders rejected Mohammed and his followers from being part of the elect of God, then it would seem that Mohammed had little choice other than to start a new religion outside of the control of such leaders.
2. Sustainable, meaning that the traditions are likely to effectively transfer the teachings to successive generations.
3. Corrupt, meaning that Christian religious leaders degenerated Jesus message of loving God above all else and your neighbour as yourself, to symbolic rituals and controlling people. Unfortunately, Islamic religious leaders have similarly degenerated Mohammed’s message of loving God above all else and your neighbour as yourself, to symbolic rituals and controlling others.
The Qur’an’s frustration with Christians (People of the Book) is now applicable to Muslims.
Regards,
Walter
This book is important and I hope the heads of the Muslim and Christian faiths have a copy each. Cannot wait to get my copy in my hands.
There is so much to be learned from each other yet a great deal of politics and Politics keeps us apart.
Hi Kim:
The historical record supports your perception of politics, or the attempt of the few to control the many, as the principal reason of the many being kept apart. My post-publication discussions with religious leaders and their adherents appear to confirm this perception.
I have found that adherents who want to know what is beyond the ‘fence’ erected by their leaders have been willing to discuss the evidence. The leaders seem threatened with a loss of control, and seem content to simply ignore all of the compelling evidence.
Regards,
Walter.
If I may voice a casual observance on this subject. I have read both the Bible and the Qur’an. What seems to be the common denominator that fuels the fires of debate is sinful mankind (on both sides). Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the Lord with all your heart; never rely on what you think you know.” >
Hi Ron:
In my opinion, the common denominator that fuels this debate is the fear of investigating (for verification purposes) the assumptions upon which the interpretations of the Bible and the Qur’an were based. The fear is that our interpretations may be found to be incorrect.
It is much better to be proven wrong here, and to be embarrassed here, rather than before the Lord Jesus on judgment day.
Regards,
Walter
Have not yet read the book itself , merely your introduction here on line. Immediately I see a discrepancy, because Israel has not demanded that Arabs/Moslems leave I srael, merely that they accept Israel’s sovereignty. There are Arabs in the Knesset, there are Muslims in the Knesset. On the other hand Jews are not allowed to live in peace and safety in the West Bank or Gaza, nor would they be given a position in the PA or Hamas. This is avery fundemental difference. Those who turned on Israel in 1948 and 67 forfeited their right of return by declaring themselves enemies. Others stayed and are Israeli citizens with a right to vote and hold office.
I will like to say that I’m a Muslim and you can’t be a Muslim if you do not believe is Jesus/ Jesus was born with out a dad just Marry but Adam was born with out a mom or dad! Jesus say pray to the god of us all and the Muslims say the same! Jesus never say pray to him he say pray to god! And Jesus said he most go so that the true about him and all be delivered to us/this truth us Muslims believes its Islam/ Islam tells the truth about Jesus in a good way! Islam tells you to pray to the god that Jesus said pray to! Seek the truth and you will be free
For my Christian brothers Jesus said I came not to destroy the laws! We all become in one body in his church that’s in all of us! He said keep the commandments! He said believe in the father as one! Jesus baptized with the spirit! Because when Jesus got baptized it was for all! So for everybody that believe in him and the one true God you become baptized in the spirit! So Muslim we believe in Jesus and the one true god of all(Allah) god word became flesh not god his word! What ever he say come to be! Like Adam,the sun,the moon,the Earth that we live on! We have to open are eyes and see open are ears the truth is in front of us! When you read the bible look at what Jesus say! He say one thing and the others say another! I look at what he say the truth!
Hi Oliveb:
Please note that the research provides compelling and explicit evidence that there is harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an, but very little between their religious traditions. The issues that you are raising are covered in detail in my second book titled “Solving the Arab-Israeli Conflict” provides a workable solution to the mid-east problems.
Regards,
Walter
Hi Ben:
Thank-you for your comments. I agree with you that a Muslim must believe in Jesus. However, what exactly are Muslims supposed to believe about Jesus in order to qualify as a believer in Jesus. To ansewr this question, the Qur’an instructs Muslims to refer to the revelation that came before – in the Bible. May you understand what you read.
Regards,
Walter
Thanks for dedicating your time in making this book a success. I give thanks to God for making me to see this site at this early hours of today… this is something i have always wanted. I am from West Africa.Nigeria. Edo State, Benin City. and i will like to have a copy of your book, Brothers kept Apart. It will be of great joy to me, if you can provide an avenue for me to get access to a copy of this your book at my present location. I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks, with Love Martin.
Thanks for dedicating your time in making this book a success. I give thanks to God for making me to see this site at this early hours of today… this is something i have always wanted. I am from West Africa.Nigeria. Edo State, Benin City. and i will like to have a copy of your book, Brothers kept Apart. It will be of great joy to me, if you can provide an avenue for me to get access to a copy of this your book at my present location. I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks, with Love Martin.
Hi Martin:
If you are unable to purchase the book on Amazon.com, then you can send a money order or check for the equivalent of US$30 and I can post you a copy. Please send the postal address to BrothersKeptApart@gmail.com. You can also send me the address of the nearest library and I can send them a copy.
Regards,
Walter
Why do Muslims hate Christians so much?
Hi Ben:
Muslims are taught a range of behaviours by their religious leaders. Many of these leaders teach Muslims to distrust Christians. They generally view Christians as how Christians generally view Jews. Let me explain.
Christians are taught (and the Bible supports this teaching) that God’s words were given to the Israelites by prophet Moses. However, after centuries of disobedience by the Israelites, God’s words were taught by the Messiah, Jesus, to the Jews. Jesus’ Jewish followers then taught them to many different nations, and soon, the number of Jewish belieers were a minority.
Christians generally view Jews who do not accept Jesus as the Messiah as misguided, and Jews generally view those who accept Jesus as the Messiah as similarly misguided.
Muslims generally view anyone who does not accept their prophet Mohammed as misguided. However, when this belief is coupled with the idea that they are currently engaged in a holy war, or jihad, then the misguided can be viewed as the enemy of Islam and a legitimate target of persecution.
How do you explain that in the Qu’ran (19:31-34) it says that Jesus did die on the cross, but in another passage (4:157-158) it says he didn’t die on the cross, that it was just someone that looked like Jesus? And in 9:30 it says that it is utter blasphemy that Jesus was the son of God. How can you explain these passages and how they contradict themselves, let alone contradicting the Bible?
Hi Joshua:
1. Qur’an 19:31-34 appears to be consistent with Jesus’ death and ressurection.
2. Qur’an 4:157-158 does not say that Jesus did not die on the cross, but that he was not killed by the Jews. Further, the idea that someone like Jesus was crucified is not found in the Qur’an – that is an Islamic religious tradition.
3. Qur’an 9:30 does not describe the concept of Son of God as described in the Bible. The Qur’an was opposed to the idea of God having sexual intercourse with Mary to produce a Son.
Therefore, no contradictions in the Qur’an or with the Bible. Have you read the detailed evidence in the book?
Regards,
Walter.
One of the first things I learnt when I followed Christ is that one cannot be concerned with what people think of you. Only what God thinks is important. The double thinking found on this site reminds me of that spineless attitude of pandering to humans, not God.
As usual it is the Christian who has to give up his or her belief in the deity of Christ – one of the dearest doctrines of the Christian Church, but the muslim has to compromise on nothing. This is so predictable and hardly new at all. This kind of thing has been peddled for nearly a hundred years.
I am not at all impressed.
Steve Carroll
Hi Steve:
It is not a question of compromising, but converging at the Truth. I have presented numerous verses, in their context, which supports my position. Why have you chosen to neither criticise the analysis nor inerpretation of the verses?
Regards.
I have read most of the conversation on this page, and look forward to getting the book.
You seem a very well balanced, fair minded person, and I would be intrigued to read your understanding of each book. There are a couple of points you have made which I instinctually seem to question; however I will wait to read the book to form a more complete picture on those issues!
One point I would be fascinated to hear your view on, is Arianism, the council of Nicea, and any potential that there were holy scriptures that could have been destroyed around this time. Since you have said there was insufficient evidence in the bible pointing to the trinity as it is understood in today’s Church, I thought you may share my belief, that there could have existed scriptures that belonged to the bible, which were more Unitarian in nature.
I am currently considering marriage to a Catholic girl (I’m Muslim), and I hope that your book will bring our understanding of each other even closer.
Kind Regards,
Karim
Hi Karim:
Thank you for your comments. I look forward to discussing any part of the book, and any ancillary issues with you – so that we may all benefit.
In the book, I have addressed Arianism and every other popular teaching that was promoted around the Middle East between the time of Jesus and the time of Mohammed. During the time of the Council that you referred to, the Bible contained books/letters that are not included in common Bibles today. You may read them in the English translation of the Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD), which I have linked to on this site under ‘Recommended Internet Resources’. Since the additional books can be read today, they are not lost.
Congratulations on your upcoming marriage. Please note that it is a lifelong and sometimes challenging commitment, but if you remain true to your promise to love her unconditionally, you can enjoy a beautiful and satisfying exciting relationship between the inevitable challenging times.
Be blessed as you take on this new responsibility of caring for a wife. May you never stop demonstrating your love for her, and may she always know that she can depend on your love regardless of any temporary negative situations you may both encounter. May you facilitate an environment where she can continue to grow spiritually, intellectually, physically, and emotionally as she prepares to serve humanity with the gifts and talents with which God has blessed her. May you listen to her concerns and address them as much as you are able – without taking on financial debt. May you both prosper during this time of economic recession that you may assist the needy who are in your path.
Best regards,
Walter
What do you think about cartoons about Muhammed and the violent reaction?
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You do realize it isn’t necessary to “teach” what isn’t true, and that your theory of compatibility with the New Testament doesn’t apply even to the letters of Paul with the Gospels, right?
We have not been “kept apart” either, Christians worship A MAN, which is the exact opposite of the Greatest Commandment, “The Lord OUR God is ONE God, WORSHIP HIM with all….”
So the Nicene Creed is an oral tradition started by pagans, believed by pagans, now and then.
If we worshipped Issa or believed in the crucifixion and it’s alleged vicarious powers of atonement, didn’t fully reject the idea that Paul was a true Apostle of Issa (as) based on the facts and exegesis of scholars, secular or otherwise…
And the Qur’an DIDN’T teach that the Gospels are corrupt and it WASN’T factually provable that IT IS…
I would take you seriously….
IF.
I do so love Allah, who is ONE God, to believe that His uncorrupted Word of Law told me to do anything more than respect the ORIGINAL Injeel, which can’t have Joseph married to Maryam (pbuh) when the Qur’an is clear it at least was post parte.
Also Maryam is clearly a Levite, related to Elizabeth and Zachariah, obviously both Levites, and it literally calls Elizabeth a “daughter of Aaron.” IN THE GOSPELS!!!
Yet somehow Issa (as) is the seed of David?
Watch a Muslim vs Christian debate sometime, some Deedat for sure will wake your trying so hard to be positive you utter falsehoods.
“If through my falsehood God’s glory abounds, why am I being judged a sinner.”
Says “an idol is nothing” Paul the false, self proclaimed “apostle”, 13th out of…12???
Have you ever read Paul’s epistles? I can’t imagine you have, as he trash talks the real Apostles constantly declares his own teachings, learned from “no man”, are the Word of God, and calls the Law of Moses a curse that gives sin it’s power.
Paul is why I realized I was a Muslim and all he’s good for, Ibn Taymiyya was aware of his being a more successful Ibn Saba, just like Shabbatai Sci, and the Bible is the best evidence to prove that Paul is falsehood personified, a rat, Roman stooge.
Let’s not forget the unambiguous statement that “they crucified him not, nor killed him” which you interpret as applying ONLY to the Jews.
That isn’t supported by any classic Tassie or by any creed or school of thought in Islam, and it’s equal to saying you know better than the entire history of Islamic scholarship put together, who pretty much have alway universally believed it applied to the Jews and obviously their overlords the Romans, who had to give approval and did.
All I have to say is if the Jews didn’t crucify him nobody did. And nobody did, only it WAS MADE TO APPEAR SO BY ALLAH.
Which is factually saying it was some sort of deception, and I hate people who read about the hardening of heart of Pharoah by Allah to accomplish a goal when Pharoah relented, but take offense at deceiving the wicked who would have killed his Messiah (as)…
If Allah WEREN’T the “best of planners.”
I have a hard time believing you are well read in the literature of early Christianity, as the TRUE movement of Issa (as) was called the “Way”, which literally makes Issa (as) a “Sunni” in Arabic.
The Nazarenes and Ebionites, declared heretics for following Jewish customs and being believers in “One God, one Messiah” as the Epistle of Clement in Syriac or Greek, says.
No wonder it was REMOVED from all Canons save Ethiopia, and IS IN one of the 2 oldest complete New Testament extant, Vaticanus.
It contradicted Catholic Trinitarian oral traditions, invented by and for pagans, not even a concept until Athenagoras, made law by Constantine the pagan, and forever married to Roman paganism by all who believe in Trinity.
If Christians believe that the Messiah is God, even though the Messiah (says) “Our God” or “Our Father” it is because they refuse to abandon their father’s traditions and accept, acknowledging or just learn the truth…
You know the Qur’an says to avoid such people right?
That it condemns polytheism as unforgivable, the worst of sin by the worst of sinners, if they but knew?
My sister is Christian but when shown facts, by me, she didn’t deny the truth. She wasn’t shocked at my conversion, took me to take Shahada, let my niece have a Qur’an.
You make it seem like Muslims and Christians haven’t been living relatively peacefully, with Jews at that, too, in the Ummah for 1400 years, like John bar Penkaye the Syrian monk of the 7th century, the Jews of Persia and the Coptic Monophysites didn’t support, even assist, the early Ummah, AGAINST Christian Byzantium, and Muslim majority nations today do have Christians, European nations deemed Christian do have Muslims and that it is impossible that two different ideologies, Trinitarianism vs absolute Monotheism, can’t co exist without sophist methods of reconciliation that amount to a denial of what Allah, the Prophet, centuries of scholarship prove factual, which is…
“They crucified him NOT.”
Misinterpretations to make your “he WAS crucified” theory seem plausible when you realize that “they” also didn’t kill Issa (as), but that he was “raised up”, alive.
Begging the question, so you, a Muslim, are willing to disagree with scholars over the course of 1400 years and assert that “They killed him not” doesn’t mean he didn’t die or wasn’t crucified, just not by “they”, the Jews who wanted him dead, and thought they did kill him?
Unfortunately you are being cute with exegesis and haven’t a word of Tafsir or Hadith to substantiate such absurdities, yet the Ahadith DO say Issa (as) is going to return and THEN die a natural death, in the Last Days.
So he couldn’t have been crucified because the Qur’an says the people who took responsibility, the Jews AND Pilate, a Roman, who approves the alleged crucifixion and absolutely bears the majority of the responsibility in the Gospels, even if pressured to act wickedly a ruler should not cave in to fanatics who want to commit murder using Roman laws and Jewish laws.
Does the Torah not place a curse on who gets hung from a tree? Wooden cross, crucifixion and Paul saying it applies to Issa (as) trying to make up a reason why it’s not a bad thing should tell you that.
I am all for getting along with my neighbors, but I would not recommend doing so at the expense of truth, reason, logic and proper exegesis, especially at the expense of your own In an and Din.
A Trinitarian is a polytheism, claiming 3 is 1 doesn’t change the fact that it can’t be, and 1/3 of said Trinity worships a man, believes that his death is the only hope of salvation, a that he didn’t die but was resurrected like all pagan sun gods and is both God and God’s son, this is textbook idolatry, and it’s not just Catholic or Orthodox but the majority of Christians who believe this, are clearly astray.
You want Islam to change it’s scripture, and how it’s interpreted (that is, properly), because you CHOOSE to ignore the obviously contradicting beliefs that exist within Christianity itself, the Bible itself, and the Qur’an when compared to the Bible?
To you yours, to me, mine.
Although how you can say “They killed him not, nor did they crucify him…” means “just the Jews, that is” as if Rome had no part to play in the Gospels that state otherwise, the same one’s you claim are compatible with Islam, is perplexing, because if the Qur’an doesn’t say Pilate was ultimately responsible, hand washing of said incident (in the mind of Pilate) aside, he had the power of pardon and didn’t.
And the Jews don’t have a custom of freeing one (human) prisoner, it’s a mockery of the Yom Kippur sacrifice of a goat to Allah and one set loose for Azazel,i.e. They made Issa (as) a literal scapegoat.
And Allah let them kill His Messiah?
No right minded person could accept this, in Islam it’s inconceivable, in Christianity the focal point regarding the mission of Issa (as), and 100% vicariously atoning for the sins of even the unborn, but not the dead.
How…disgusting of Paul to assert!
How appropriate he should use, and subsequently be refuted (by James), using the example of the works AND faith of Abraham(sa)!
“Vein man! Do you need to be told, faith without works (Paul’s summa theologia) is dead?”
Christianity has always been astray, Issa (as) and his companions were Nazarene Judahites, he nor they believed he was God, John 1 is untranslated as God is Tongue in, the Word, theos,i.e. NOT God, just divine.
You are astray, don’t invite company to your misery because you think it will change the hearts of Christians, because if Allah wanted them to come to Islam, they would, you will never satisfy them without converting, as the Qur’an tells you
Let’s not forget the unambiguous statement that “they crucified him not, nor killed him” which you interpret as applying ONLY to the Jews.
That isn’t supported by any classic Tafsir or by any creed or school of thought in Islam, and it’s equal to saying you know better than the entire history of Islamic scholarship put together, who pretty much have alway universally believed it applied to the Jews and obviously their overlords the Romans, who had to give approval and did.
All I have to say is if the Jews didn’t crucify him nobody did. And nobody did, only it WAS MADE TO APPEAR SO BY ALLAH.
Which is factually saying it was some sort of deception, and I hate people who read about the hardening of heart of Pharoah by Allah to accomplish a goal when Pharoah relented, but take offense at deceiving the wicked who would have killed his Messiah (as)…
If Allah WEREN’T the “best of planners.”
I have a hard time believing you are well read in the literature of early Christianity, as the TRUE movement of Issa (as) was called the “Way”, which literally makes Issa (as) a “Sunni” in Arabic.
The Nazarenes and Ebionites, both mentioned as names of the Qumran sect (Hasidim too) declared heretics for following Jewish customs and being believers in “One God, one Messiah” as the Epistle of Clement in Syriac or Greek, says.
No wonder it was REMOVED from all Canons save Ethiopia, and IS IN one of the 2 oldest complete New Testament extant, Vaticanus.
It contradicted Catholic Trinitarian oral traditions, invented by and for pagans, not even a concept until Athenagoras, made law by Constantine the pagan, and forever married to Roman paganism by all who believe in Trinity.
If Christians believe that the Messiah is God, even though the Messiah (says) “Our God” or “Our Father” it is because they refuse to abandon their father’s traditions and accept, acknowledge, or just learn the truth…
You know the Qur’an says to avoid such people right?
That it condemns polytheism as unforgivable, the worst of sin by the worst of sinners, if they but knew?
My sister is Christian but when shown facts, by me, she didn’t deny the truth. She wasn’t shocked at my conversion, took me to take Shahada, let my niece have a Qur’an.
You make it seem like Muslims and Christians haven’t been living relatively peacefully, with Jews at that, too, in the Ummah for 1400 years, like John bar Penkaye the Syrian monk of the 7th century, the Jews of Persia and the Coptic Monophysites didn’t support, even assist, the early Ummah, AGAINST Christian Byzantium, and Muslim majority nations today do have Christians, European nations deemed Christian do have Muslims and that it is impossible that two different ideologies, Trinitarianism vs absolute Monotheism, can’t co exist without sophist methods of reconciliation that amount to a denial of what Allah, the Prophet, centuries of scholarship prove factual, which is…
“They crucified him NOT.”
Misinterpretations to make your “he WAS crucified” theory seem plausible aside, when you realize that “they” also didn’t KILL Issa (as), but that he was “raised up”, alive.
Wasn’t crucified, wasn’t killed. It could not be a more desperate move to say “They” only applies to the Jews, when Romans played the role of judge and executioner and if not for Pilate saying yes, they couldn’t have legally executed a pauper.
But it was sanctioned by Pilate who worked for ROME!!! Wasn’t Judahite either, so your theory is easily dismissed using what you didn’t realize was evidence against your theory as support for it, because in your precious Roman Canon it clearly involves Rome, even if in the case of the Qur’an it says “they”, that isn’t a reason to excuse the part, major part, that Rome played, so if the “they” of the Qur’an is the same party as the New Testament doesn’t, it doesn’t need stating because it was obvious and known, then and is now.
Begging the question, so you, a non-Muslim, are willing to disagree with scholars over the course of 1400 years and assert that “They killed him not” doesn’t mean he didn’t die or wasn’t crucified, just not by “they”, the Jews who wanted him dead, and thought they did kill him?
Shocking!!! You actually come across as deceptive, at first you are positive, when the subject of Islam today comes up your agenda becomes clear, you think you know the Qur’an better than Muslim scholars, all of them, and that none of us know the Bible.
Yet the reason I became a Muslim was the inability to logically accept as fact, the narrative of the NT, especially Paul, and it only happened BECAUSE I dedicated an entire year to learning the (disgusting) Bible, a book of fratricide, genocide, infanticide, God allegedly ordering people to violate His own laws, Jephtahs sacrifice his daughter being accepted, blood, guts, incest, murder, it is really not compatible with COMMON SENSE, never mind the pseudepigraphal nature of the Torah, most books of the Tanakh and N.T.
Unfortunately you are being cute with exegesis and haven’t a word of Tafsir or Hadith to substantiate such absurdities, yet the Ahadith DO say Issa (as) is going to return and THEN die a natural death, in the Last Days.
So he couldn’t have been crucified because the Qur’an says the people who took responsibility, the Jews AND Pilate, a Roman, who approves the alleged crucifixion and absolutely bears the majority of the responsibility in the Gospels, even if pressured to act wickedly a ruler should not cave in to fanatics who want to commit murder using Roman laws and Jewish laws.
Does the Torah not place a curse on who gets hung from a tree? Wooden cross, crucifixion and Paul saying it applies to Issa (as) trying to make up a reason why it’s not a bad thing should tell you that.
I am all for getting along with my neighbors, but I would not recommend doing so at the expense of truth, reason, logic and proper exegesis, especially at the expense of your own In an and Din.
A Trinitarian is a polytheism, claiming 3 is 1 doesn’t change the fact that it can’t be, and 1/3 of said Trinity worships a man, believes that his death is the only hope of salvation, a that he didn’t die but was resurrected like all pagan sun gods and is both God and God’s son, this is textbook idolatry, and it’s not just Catholic or Orthodox but the majority of Christians who believe this, are clearly astray.
You want Islam to change it’s scripture, and how it’s interpreted (that is, properly), because you CHOOSE to ignore the obviously contradicting beliefs that exist within Christianity itself, the Bible itself, and the Qur’an when compared to the Bible?
To you yours, to me, mine.
Although how you can say “They killed him not, nor did they crucify him…” means “just the Jews, that is” as if Rome had no part to play in the Gospels that state otherwise, the same one’s you claim are compatible with Islam, is perplexing, because if the Qur’an doesn’t say Pilate was ultimately responsible, hand washing of said incident (in the mind of Pilate) aside, he had the power of pardon and didn’t.
And the Jews don’t have a custom of freeing one (human) prisoner, it’s a mockery of the Yom Kippur sacrifice of a goat to Allah and one set loose for Azazel,i.e. They made Issa (as) a literal scapegoat.
And Allah let them kill His Messiah?
No right minded person could accept this, in Islam it’s inconceivable, in Christianity the focal point regarding the mission of Issa (as), and 100% vicariously atoning for the sins of even the unborn, but not the dead.
How…disgusting of Paul to assert!
How appropriate he should use, and subsequently be refuted (by James), using the example of the works AND faith of Abraham(sa)!
“Vein man! Do you need to be told, faith without works (Paul’s summa theologia) is dead?”
Christianity has always been astray, Issa (as) and his companions were Nazarene Judahites, he nor they believed he was God, John 1 is untranslated as God is Tongue in, the Word, theos,i.e. NOT God, just divine.
You are astray, don’t invite company to your misery because you think it will change the hearts of Christians, because if Allah wanted them to come to Islam, they would, you will never satisfy them without converting, as the Qur’an tells you
Let’s not forget the unambiguous statement that “they crucified him not, nor killed him” which you interpret as applying ONLY to the Jews.
That isn’t supported by any classic Tafsir or by any creed or school of thought in Islam, and it’s equal to saying you know better than the entire history of Islamic scholarship put together, who pretty much have alway universally believed it applied to the Jews and obviously their overlords the Romans, who had to give approval and did.
All I have to say is if the Jews didn’t crucify him nobody did. And nobody did, only it WAS MADE TO APPEAR SO BY ALLAH.
Which is factually saying it was some sort of deception, and I hate people who read about the hardening of heart of Pharoah by Allah to accomplish a goal when Pharoah relented, but take offense at deceiving the wicked who would have killed his Messiah (as)…
If Allah WEREN’T the “best of planners.”
I have a hard time believing you are well read in the literature of early Christianity, as the TRUE movement of Issa (as) was called the “Way”, which literally makes Issa (as) a “Sunni” in Arabic.
The Nazarenes and Ebionites, both mentioned as names of the Qumran sect (Hasidim too) declared heretics for following Jewish customs and being believers in “One God, one Messiah” as the Epistle of Clement in Syriac or Greek, says.
No wonder it was REMOVED from all Canons save Ethiopia, and IS IN one of the 2 oldest complete New Testament extant, Vaticanus.
It contradicted Catholic Trinitarian oral traditions, invented by and for pagans, not even a concept until Athenagoras, made law by Constantine the pagan, and forever married to Roman paganism by all who believe in Trinity.
If Christians believe that the Messiah is God, even though the Messiah (says) “Our God” or “Our Father” it is because they refuse to abandon their father’s traditions and accept, acknowledge, or just learn the truth…
You know the Qur’an says to avoid such people right?
That it condemns polytheism as unforgivable, the worst of sin by the worst of sinners, if they but knew?
My sister is Christian but when shown facts, by me, she didn’t deny the truth. She wasn’t shocked at my conversion, took me to take Shahada, let my niece have a Qur’an.
You make it seem like Muslims and Christians haven’t been living relatively peacefully, with Jews at that, too, in the Ummah for 1400 years, like John bar Penkaye the Syrian monk of the 7th century, the Jews of Persia and the Coptic Monophysites didn’t support, even assist, the early Ummah, AGAINST Christian Byzantium, and Muslim majority nations today do have Christians, European nations deemed Christian do have Muslims and that it is impossible that two different ideologies, Trinitarianism vs absolute Monotheism, can’t co exist without sophist methods of reconciliation that amount to a denial of what Allah, the Prophet, centuries of scholarship prove factual, which is…
“They crucified him NOT.”
Misinterpretations to make your “he WAS crucified” theory seem plausible aside, when you realize that “they” also didn’t KILL Issa (as), but that he was “raised up”, alive.
Wasn’t crucified, wasn’t killed. It could not be a more desperate move to say “They” only applies to the Jews, when Romans played the role of judge and executioner and if not for Pilate saying yes, they couldn’t have legally executed a pauper.
But it was sanctioned by Pilate who worked for ROME!!! Wasn’t Judahite either, so your theory is easily dismissed using what you didn’t realize was evidence against your theory as support for it, because in your precious Roman Canon it clearly involves Rome, even if in the case of the Qur’an it says “they”, that isn’t a reason to excuse the part, major part, that Rome played, so if the “they” of the Qur’an is the same party as the New Testament doesn’t, it doesn’t need stating because it was obvious and known, then and is now.
Begging the question, so you, a non-Muslim, are willing to disagree with scholars over the course of 1400 years and assert that “They killed him not” doesn’t mean he didn’t die or wasn’t crucified, just not by “they”, the Jews who wanted him dead, and thought they did kill him?
Shocking!!! You actually come across as deceptive, at first you are positive, when the subject of Islam today comes up your agenda becomes clear, you think you know the Qur’an better than Muslim scholars, all of them, and that none of us know the Bible.
Yet the reason I became a Muslim was the inability to logically accept as fact, the narrative of the NT, especially Paul, and it only happened BECAUSE I dedicated an entire year to learning the (disgusting) Bible, a book of fratricide, genocide, infanticide, God allegedly ordering people to violate His own laws, Jephtahs sacrifice his daughter being accepted, blood, guts, incest, murder, it is really not compatible with COMMON SENSE, never mind the pseudepigraphal nature of the Torah, most books of the Tanakh and N.T.
Unfortunately you are being cute with exegesis and haven’t a word of Tafsir or Hadith to substantiate such absurdities, yet the Ahadith DO say Issa (as) is going to return and THEN die a natural death, in the Last Days.
So he couldn’t have been crucified because the Qur’an says the people who took responsibility, the Jews AND Pilate, a Roman, who approves the alleged crucifixion and absolutely bears the majority of the responsibility in the Gospels, even if pressured to act wickedly a ruler should not cave in to fanatics who want to commit murder using Roman laws and Jewish laws.
Does the Torah not place a curse on who gets hung from a tree? Wooden cross, crucifixion and Paul saying it applies to Issa (as) trying to make up a reason why it’s not a bad thing should tell you that.
I am all for getting along with my neighbors, but I would not recommend doing so at the expense of truth, reason, logic and proper exegesis, especially at the expense of your own In an and Din.
A Trinitarian is a polytheism, claiming 3 is 1 doesn’t change the fact that it can’t be, and 1/3 of said Trinity worships a man, believes that his death is the only hope of salvation, a that he didn’t die but was resurrected like all pagan sun gods and is both God and God’s son, this is textbook idolatry, and it’s not just Catholic or Orthodox but the majority of Christians who believe this, are clearly astray.
You want Islam to change it’s scripture, and how it’s interpreted (that is, properly), because you CHOOSE to ignore the obviously contradicting beliefs that exist within Christianity itself, the Bible itself, and the Qur’an when compared to the Bible?
To you yours, to me, mine.
Although how you can say “They killed him not, nor did they crucify him…” means “just the Jews, that is” as if Rome had no part to play in the Gospels that state otherwise, the same one’s you claim are compatible with Islam, is perplexing, because if the Qur’an doesn’t say Pilate was ultimately responsible, hand washing of said incident (in the mind of Pilate) aside, he had the power of pardon and didn’t.
And the Jews don’t have a custom of freeing one (human) prisoner, it’s a mockery of the Yom Kippur sacrifice of a goat to Allah and one set loose for Azazel,i.e. They made Issa (as) a literal scapegoat.
And Allah let them kill His Messiah?
No right minded person could accept this, in Islam it’s inconceivable, in Christianity the focal point regarding the mission of Issa (as), and 100% vicariously atoning for the sins of even the unborn, but not the dead.
How…disgusting of Paul to assert!
How appropriate he should use, and subsequently be refuted (by James), using the example of the works AND faith of Abraham(sa)!
“Vein man! Do you need to be told, faith without works (Paul’s summa theologia) is dead?”
Christianity has always been astray, Issa (as) and his companions were Nazarene Judahites, he nor they believed he was God, John 1 is mistranslated as God is Tontheon, God, the Word, theos,i.e. NOT God, just divine.
Interesting you don’t kno this, but know more than 1400 years worth of scholars combined re: a religion you don’t adhere to or respect enough to honestly speak on.
You are astray, don’t invite company to your misery because you think it will change the hearts of Christians, because if Allah wanted them to come to Islam, they would, you will never satisfy them without converting, as the Qur’an tells you
Let me directly address this nonsense of crucifixion and death, lest anyone seeking the truth be led astray by a false teacher, claiming that he knows what the Prophet meant (saw), that our scholars have been wrong and for over a millennia, and that the Qur’an confirms the crucifixion because “they” i.e. the People of the book, depending upon the time referring to Jews and Nazara/Christians, which is the term introduced at 4:153 in reference to people asking the Prophet (saw) to bring a book from heaven, since “People of the book” means Christians and Jews, and they both existed at the time of the alleged crucifixion AND in Arabia during the time of the Prophet (saw), and both claim he was crucified, killed, and we’re Jews at the moment of the alleged crucifixion, it is hardly a matter of importance that the specific claim of having killed Issa (as) only applies to a certain religous group, Judaism, because the Nazara/Christians believe it too, and it is so unambiguous it says:
“They did not kill him, this much is CERTAIN.”
If the only people who claim to have killed him being discussed are the Jews, and it is, why take the statement “They did not kill him, this much is certain.” as a positive statement that a people not being discussed DID kill him?
Especially when it states “where as they killed him not, nor did they crucify him, but it was made to them to appear”, which is a clear statement they in no way saw him (sa) crucified, but thought they did?
If it only appeared to happen, and only to the Jews, what about the Romans who say they saw it? It is testified to by no eye witnesses but if it happened it is CERTAIN that if the only apparent and not real crucifixion of the Messiah, called in places “hung on a tree” in the N.T., I believe Acts, and said to be “cursed” by Paul, which the Old Testament imposes a curse upon anyone who it is done to (just a side note)…
And the Qur’an says it “was made to them to appear” that they did, but didn’t, and “They killed him not, nor did they crucify him, but it was made to them to appear.” is certainly not a statement that someone else DID crucify him (as), and at the same time it was made to appear to happen to the Jews, but didn’t happen, means someone else REALLY DID see said making it only appear, but for CERTAIN did not they kill him, in any way.
You are saying the equivalent of “while to the Jews it only appeared to have happened, only they had the false appearance of crucifying Issa (as) at the exact same time it REALLY DID happen, that others saw what was an illusion/false appearance made to them by Allah, in reality, which is the height of impossible to explain how it’s possible for two people, Romans and Jews, to do and see the same thing, but have it only be true in the case of the Romans, but be an appearance that he was crucified that didn’t happen in reality “They did not kill him, this much is certain” would by default be referring to who claimed they did, and if it’s just Jews, that means the Romans didn’t claim it, or aren’t being discussed in a conversation about something they claim did happen? None of which makes sense, Roman historians don’t ever deny it, do admit it in their records, and were present at said alleged crucifixion so can’t logically be excluded from the conversation that calls it, to paraphrase, an illusion. What really happened?
4:157 “…They did not kill him, this much is certain.
4:158 (did you even quote thiCERTAIN.
“Instead Allah exalted him with all honour to his Presence. And Allah is All-Mighty, All Wise.”
4:159 “And there is NONE from among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) who will disbelieve in this, for certain, before his death, and on the Day of Ressurection he will testify against them.”
That is a statement, clear as day, stating he has yet to die, but will, be resurrected with all, and witness against who believes in this nonsense on the Day of Ressurection.
How on earth you can’t properly understand we are properly reading the Qur’an which FACTUALLY STATE’S that Issa (as) wasn’t killed, crucified, dead, but will at some unknown future date return and die a natural death, and ressurect, a topic discussed in Ahadith in detail and think that the Qur’an doesn’t deny what it factually does on the ground that “They”, in context called “People of the Book” and as long as both exist always refers to Christians and Jews, as in 4:159 And in general, unless B.C., or otherwise specified as referring only to one or the other, which in the context of the whole narrative refers to both believing it happened, ultimately ending with a universal statement that they will both believe it until the time he REALLY dies, again a topic expounded upon in Ahadith and Tafsir, is a mystery, and not shared by any Qur’an scholars, be they Orientalist, Muslim or Christian, because they are just reading in context what you take out of context, as the Qur’an tells you it didn’t happen at all, period, and for as long as Islam has existed this has been a fact.
You have statements denying it happened and you tell a falsehood when you say the Qur’an confirms the crucifixion because when it says it didn’t happen it only means “The Jews”, showing you will misinterpret Holy Scripture to peddle books, as I have left no room for doubt you are clearly mistaken, you are a subject of the Ayat yourself actually, 4:159, “People of the Book ” who “believe in this”, and will be “witnesse[d] against” on the Day of Ressurection, by the one (sa) you speak of with falsehoods, Issa (sa), and Allah, “Master of the Day of Judgement” (Sura 1:4), about His Perfect Book.
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